Technical debate

[Todd W. White]

Old Guy,

I remembered that reference - my position is that it came part and parcel with all of the other WE bundle that George Carrington, et al, purchased from them when they formed All-Technical Service.

So, there's a sense in which one could see it as Altec DID design and build the first speaker of this type, since they did have the sole rights to the WE stuff...

What do you think?

- Todd

[Old Guy]

I'll pretty much have to agree with that- AFAIK Altec bought all the WE designs. So Altec owning that design would make them the first. For Clarification though, the 601/604 isn't the first design.

I've never seen any proof that WE design was ever built- it could have just been a design exercise.

I'd love to run across a prototype.

One wonders just how much documentation was trashed when Altec moved to Oklahoma and the bankruptcy afterward. We may never know the answers to a lot of questions.

[martyh45]

There are advantages to underhung alnico motors, like low distortion and low leakage. The vintage Altec LF units are still among the best ever made (insert disclaimer of your choice) IE: the 416-8a is capable of less than 1% distortion to 35Hz at 100dB out (inaudible distortion) it?s less than 0.2% above 50 Hz. Most of the stuff built today is falling completely apart in the lower registers at 100 dB, distortion in the neighborhood of 10% (clearly audible) is not uncommon. That?s not to say that all modern stuff is junk but you will pay dearly for anything approaching vintage Altec quality. So yeah, I love them and they get a ?two thumbs up? for value and performance in my book.

As far as ?duplex? goes, it?s a trademark more than anything. Saying that Altec makes the only ?true duplex? is like saying that 3M makes the only ?true? scotch tape. Coaxial is the more accurate description and as long as the hf coil is behind the lf coil (like the 604) they can be time aligned with passive crossovers. Tannoy makes suitable units to this day and has been making them since 1946, not first but certainly no Johnnie come lately either.

Altec is gone in everything but name, the fact that they sell mostly junk and pass it off as somehow connected to the real deal really ticks me off. Computer speakers?..sheesh. Now, if GPA got the name back then we would have something, real quality across the line that is really connected to the heritage, THAT would be a proper use.

Marty

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by martyh45:
Now, if GPA got the name back then we would have something, real quality across the line that is really connected to the heritage, THAT would be a proper use.

Marty

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Marty, I agree that if GPA could call themselves Altec, Bill,s products would do a heck of alot more justice to the name, but, still, getting Altec back into the marketplace, like concerts and touring rigs, soundstage studios, recording studios, and other pro and high profile markets is alot harder than it may seem.

I would love to see this happen, and for audio to becomes serious again, but how do you change what the markets want now? Lightweight, compact, high power, high output systems like Line Arrays seem to rule, and no one wants to use big, heavy stuff anymore.

Without this type of high profile exposure, how could they begin to market high end speakers, like updated versions of classics like M19,s.

These days, it seems like too many things are now Made in China, JBL and Crown included! Its just too cheap to manufacture over there! How do we compete? Do you remember when TV sets were made here? Zenith, Magnavox, RCA! We lost these makrkets years ago to Japan, and all but lost the American Auto industry to Japan.

How do you make it work?

[LICORNE]

It's one big Marketing nightmare. Plantronics owns the name "Altec". Their sales revenues were
300 million $ last year.That includes both divisions.
One lucrative market is anything that has to do with the automobile. JBL made 2 billion dollar with Mercedez Benz with their auto speakers.

To atrack a Car maker like Toyota or Nissan you got to have a prestigious line of speakers out there ;in Cinemas Touring Etc. GPA has 2 flagships
VOTT and the 604. Recording studios seem to like the Big REd . And the Motion Picture industry
with Dolby have no objections for Megaplex using
A-4 speakers.

Fix installations like football stadiums is a big niche for the 817 and the M94 horn.

Touring is the only gap . Line array are popular because they are neat. Still quite huge considering
you need 12 cabinets to make an array.

Hopefully things will work out .

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[LICORNE]

Why it quadruples ? Well I was playing it safe actually it doubles for evry 3DB.

The sound level increases 3 dB each time the power doubles : 2W=3dB, 4W=6dB, 8W=9dB, 16W=12dB, 32W=15dB, 64W=18dB, 128W=21dB.

The acoustic power is equal The Altec at 65 watts
and the Beyma at 300watts = 120DB

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[Old Guy]

Todd:
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/interact/research.htm

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by CONVERGENCE:
Why it quadruples ? Well I was playing it safe actually it doubles for evry 3DB.

The sound level increases 3 dB each time the power doubles : 2W=3dB, 4W=6dB, 8W=9dB, 16W=12dB, 32W=15dB, 64W=18dB, 128W=21dB.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are just plain being silly at this point. 2 db is not quadruple just because you want to say so. 2 db is actually less than double.

If you want to have a discusssion stick to facts or forget the whole thing.

[RonSSS]

Would one of you in the know please explain to me underhung vs. overhung voice ciol?

Thanks,

Ron

[LICORNE]

Hi,
The difference is with the voice coil and the magnet gaps. in an underhang voice coil the voice coil travels within the gaps and never leaves that space. In an overhung voice coil the voice coil exceeds the size of the gap and travels further. The Ideal formula is to have the greatest sensitivity with the least travelling or excursion.

Here is a diagram picturing both.




I hope it clarifies things a bit.

Convergence

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